Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

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Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

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Franklin Armory Introduces Short Barrel ‘Firearm’ With Standard AR Stock and ATF Approval
According to the NFA an SBR is any firearm with a buttstock that has a rifled barrel of less than sixteen inches, or an overall length of less than twenty six inches. The total length is measured in the extended position. However, Franklin Armory found a shocking loophole.

As part of the new Reformation line of patent pending NRS firearms, the first SKUs in the Reformation line feature a non-NFA configuration with an 11.5″ barrel and a conventional stock as shown in the press release below:
Neither a rifle nor a shotgun per the ATF, allegedly. This probably effectively will be made illegal via an ATF letter after a few are sold. If the barrel is not rifled, I would not want it.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by shinzen »

So a 26" smoothbore AR non-SBR with an 11.5" barrel. I'm sure that is totally going to be a tack driver........ More gimmicks that will be addressed in specific states in short order if the ATF does leave it running.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by Hasaf »

I looked at the link. I will withhold my opinion until I find out more. If it really is a smooth bore than I cannot see how it is not a Short Barrel Shotgun. If the barrel is rifled, then I cannot see how it is not a SBR.

I am interested because I would like a SBR to keep in my car. However, I cross state lines too often to get a registered SBR. I have looked at some of the pistol braces and I may go that way. So yes, I am interested to see how this one turns out.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by offensivename »

Hasaf wrote:I looked at the link. I will withhold my opinion until I find out more. If it really is a smooth bore than I cannot see how it is not a Short Barrel Shotgun. If the barrel is rifled, then I cannot see how it is not a SBR.
[quote='Federal Definitions"](5) The term "shotgun'' means a weapon designed or redesigned made or remade, and intended to be
fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an
explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each
single pull of the trigger.
(7) The term "rifle'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be
fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an
explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. [/quote]

Maybe they have something in the barrel thats not 'rifling' that does the exact same thing as rifling, therefore its not a smooth bore and also not 'rifled?'

The only other speculation I saw in my quick look was that the binary trigger somehow exempted it from the "single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger" but that seems suspect to me.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by TrueTexan »

Hasaf wrote:I looked at the link. I will withhold my opinion until I find out more. If it really is a smooth bore than I cannot see how it is not a Short Barrel Shotgun. If the barrel is rifled, then I cannot see how it is not a SBR.
Looking at it I agree because it looks like that has a shoulder stock. I have one of the Mossberg Shockwaves and it is a firearm not a SBS by law. Mossberg makes it very clear what you can and can’t do to the weapon and still remain within the law. Adding a shoulder stock is a big no no.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by Bisbee »

It would be rather extraordinary if they developed a new barrel technology which produces bullet twist without traditional rifling. Even Glock defines their polygonal barrel as "rifling".

They've got everyone's attention w a good marketing idea. Let's see if this actually pans out to anything.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by Bang »

Bisbee wrote:It would be rather extraordinary if they developed a new barrel technology which produces bullet twist without traditional rifling. Even Glock defines their polygonal barrel as "rifling".

They've got everyone's attention w a good marketing idea. Let's see if this actually pans out to anything.
The first rifling to be done was polygonal rifling in cannons, though what its intended function was I can't say.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by shinzen »

Ah, perhaps they are doing something based on a very old technology like the Russians are- the Lancaster oval bore.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... -tkm-news/

They do it in Russia for a similar reason of not requiring registration:
And that oval bore still retains the advantage of being considered as a smoothbore by the Russian law.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by ErikO »

The rumor I heard is the trigger is not semi-auto. A bullet is fired for every three trigger pulls, making it not semi-auto and not fitting in any ATF category other than 'firearm' due to being 26" long.

This is the same company that made a 26" OAL firearm with a vertical forward grip in some of the larger AR-platform calibers.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by shinzen »

Hmm. Could be a trigger change- just read through that thread over on TFB, would make sense, but looks like the prevailing theory is that it's a release trigger rather than a regular trigger or a three pull trigger due to the specific wording about a rifle in the ATF regs stating "each pull of the trigger" being the determining factor. Won't matter here in CA, it will get banned in about half a second like the maxim 50 was.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by TrueTexan »

shinzen wrote:Hmm. Could be a trigger change- just read through that thread over on TFB, would make sense, but looks like the prevailing theory is that it's a release trigger rather than a regular trigger or a three pull trigger due to the specific wording about a rifle in the ATF regs stating "each pull of the trigger" being the determining factor. Won't matter here in CA, it will get banned in about half a second like the maxim 50 was.
Hell, Just about everything is banned in California. The saying Banned in Boston was good of the sale of books and plays. Now Banned in California is good for the sale of guns everywhere else.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by DispositionMatrix »

Franklin Armory Now Taking Pre-Orders For California & New Jersey (Lawsuit Active)
Minden, NV – -(AmmoLand.com)- New Jersey Residents! – In light of our recent challenge against the State of New Jersey, Franklin Armory® has made pre-orders available for the Reformation® series of firearms for New Jersey residents…
This not only puts you on the list for one of these excellent home defense firearms, but also may give you legal standing should New Jersey change their state law while the lawsuit is pending. Pre-orders are now available for just a $5 deposit on our website…

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by senorgrand »

Still more accurate than a Mini 14...
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by SpaceRanger42 »

senorgrand wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:46 pm
Still more accurate than a Mini 14...
ooo sick burn . . .
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by MayhemVI »

OK, I perused until I became frustrated. Could someone tell me what this thing shoots? They're so busy telling me what it ISN'T, they're not really 'splaining what it IS.

"Finned projectiles" are mentioned. After binge-watching Taofladermaus(sp?) a year ago, I'm skeptical about the concept.
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by offensivename »

Its a smooth bore 'rifle.' It shoots normal rifle bullets. Supposedly well enough to hit minute of paper at 100yds but not much beyond that.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by MayhemVI »

I think I get it now. You pay $1200 - $1900 for a semi-auto...musket...with a short barrel. And this saves you the expense of paying $200 for a short barreled...rifle. Thank God for Franklin Armory.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've decided that Geico can kiss me ass and I want the most damn expensive car insurance that I can find. :bananadance: :thumbup:
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by DispositionMatrix »

Declared an SBS via another one of those ATF letters that has the force of law. It contradicts the ATF's first letter.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... lassified/
The ATF Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) has examined the Reformation firearm for purposes of classification under the applicable provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) and the National Firearms Act (NFA). During this examination, FATD determined that the straight lands and grooves incorporated into the barrel design of the Reformation do not impart a spin onto a projectile when fired through the barrel. Consequently, the Reformation is not a “rifle” as that term is defined in the GCA and NFA. Moreover, because the Reformation is not chambered for shotgun shells, it is not a shotgun as defined in the NFA. Given these determinations, the Reformation is classified as a shotgun that is subject only to the provisions of the GCA (i.e., it is not a weapon subject to the provisions of the NFA).

Under the provisions of the GCA, if a Reformation firearm is equipped with a barrel that is less than 18-inches in overall length, that firearm is classified to be a short-barreled shotgun (SBS). When a Reformation is configured as a GCA/SBS, specific provisions of the GCA apply to the transfer of that firearm from a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) to a non-licensee, and to the transport of that firearm by a non-licensee in interstate or foreign commerce. These provisions are:
  1. 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(4) requires that an individual wishing to transport an SBS in interstate or foreign commerce obtain approval by the Attorney General to transport the firearm.
  2. 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(4) requires authorization from the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity prior to the sale or delivery of an SBS to an individual by an FFL.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by offensivename »

I'm slightly baffled that the GCA and the NFA have a different definition of 'shotgun.'

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by NegativeApproach »

Unless you can or want to run a suppressor, an 11" 5.56 barrel makes so little sense.

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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by highdesert »

Franklin Armory® is a Nevada corporation that specializes in manufacturing quality firearms for sporting, military, and law enforcement applications. We are well known for our creative products such as the Binary Firing System™, Reformation™, Providence™, the F17™ series of rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, and our finely machined ARs. We are very adept at creating products for restrictive jurisdictions such as our home state of California, and every firearm we make uses 100% American made parts and materials.
REFORMATION® RS11™
$1,894.99
https://franklinarmory.com/reformation-rs11/

They're located in Minden a small town south of Carson City, NV
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Re: Franklin Armory's new non-NFA short-barrel something

Post by BillMcD »

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:47 am
Declared an SBS via another one of those ATF letters that has the force of law. It contradicts the ATF's first letter.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... lassified/
The ATF Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) has examined the Reformation firearm for purposes of classification under the applicable provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) and the National Firearms Act (NFA). During this examination, FATD determined that the straight lands and grooves incorporated into the barrel design of the Reformation do not impart a spin onto a projectile when fired through the barrel. Consequently, the Reformation is not a “rifle” as that term is defined in the GCA and NFA. Moreover, because the Reformation is not chambered for shotgun shells, it is not a shotgun as defined in the NFA. Given these determinations, the Reformation is classified as a shotgun that is subject only to the provisions of the GCA (i.e., it is not a weapon subject to the provisions of the NFA).

Under the provisions of the GCA, if a Reformation firearm is equipped with a barrel that is less than 18-inches in overall length, that firearm is classified to be a short-barreled shotgun (SBS). When a Reformation is configured as a GCA/SBS, specific provisions of the GCA apply to the transfer of that firearm from a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) to a non-licensee, and to the transport of that firearm by a non-licensee in interstate or foreign commerce. These provisions are:
  1. 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(4) requires that an individual wishing to transport an SBS in interstate or foreign commerce obtain approval by the Attorney General to transport the firearm.
  2. 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(4) requires authorization from the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity prior to the sale or delivery of an SBS to an individual by an FFL.
so... its dead in any state whose attorney general's office has better things to do than to give the middle finger to the NFA. good job franklin. you made yet another useless gimmick.

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