Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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I was an old school iron sights shooter for years, but starting shooting a red dot on a PCC and liked it. Now I've got one on my competition pistol (CZ SP01) and am getting used to it.

Finding the dot is a real issue at first -- the pistol indexes differently. But is should be cured with a few hours of dry fire practice. Once past that hump, the advantages should prevail.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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SailDesign wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:55 pm I love them. Each to their own. :)
I'm with you on both counts - love them! It surprised me that I could sight a dot at 7 yards then use it to hit steel at 100 - point, shoot, ding.

Sorry the post wasn't more clear - I'm def not arguing against them. I thought the vid was a humorous way to show a move from "iron sites forever" to "dotz-r-gud".
Last edited by AndyH on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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Elmo wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:45 pm I was an old school iron sights shooter for years, but starting shooting a red dot on a PCC and liked it. Now I've got one on my competition pistol (CZ SP01) and am getting used to it.

Finding the dot is a real issue at first -- the pistol indexes differently. But is should be cured with a few hours of dry fire practice. Once past that hump, the advantages should prevail.
Which one is on your sp01 and who did the milling?

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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Your choice, baja. I do recommend a sample size larger than one, though. He's done a couple of recent vids on various types of training. Most of his work, though, is topical pro-2A. He's an attorney from Dallas/Ft Worth and does a lot to promote firearm ownership for city folk in general and minorities in particular.

shinzen - While I get that he attempted adult humor (which did seem out of the ordinary for him), I don't see misogyny. Huh.

The training course looks useful and like it was a lot of fun!

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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They're fun at the range, but I'm vehemently opposed to them on CCW guns. First, they add unnecessary size and weight. Second, they create a very large snag point for clothing, seatbelts, car doors, etc. Third, it adds a rather powerful point of leverage for anyone attempting to disarm you, and at the very least would help someone push your gun out of battery until they could overpower you. On top of all of that, ask anyone who's ever been in a situation to use a handgun defensively and I'd bet you very few of them even bothered to try to acquire any kind of sight picture. In a situation where your life is truly in danger, you're working on pure adrenaline and you're just thrusting that gun forward and pulling the trigger as quickly as possible. As far as longer range targets, have fun trying to explain to prosecutors, a judge and a jury why you had to shoot a guy that was 50yds away from you and convince them that you were able to positively identify that person as a clear and imminent threat to your life. Oh, and then convince them that you weren't recklessly endangering anyone else in the process. Again, plenty of fun at the range. But hey, that's just my 2¢ and it's worth precisely that.

Red Dots

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kronkmusic wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 am They're fun at the range, but I'm vehemently opposed to them on CCW guns. First, they add unnecessary size and weight. Second, they create a very large snag point for clothing, seatbelts, car doors, etc. Third, it adds a rather powerful point of leverage for anyone attempting to disarm you, and at the very least would help someone push your gun out of battery until they could overpower you. On top of all of that, ask anyone who's ever been in a situation to use a handgun defensively and I'd bet you very few of them even bothered to try to acquire any kind of sight picture. In a situation where your life is truly in danger, you're working on pure adrenaline and you're just thrusting that gun forward and pulling the trigger as quickly as possible. As far as longer range targets, have fun trying to explain to prosecutors, a judge and a jury why you had to shoot a guy that was 50yds away from you and convince them that you were able to positively identify that person as a clear and imminent threat to your life. Oh, and then convince them that you weren't recklessly endangering anyone else in the process. Again, plenty of fun at the range. But hey, that's just my 2¢ and it's worth precisely that.
Lots of strawmen there, mate. Don't need to get near the back of the slide to push a semi-auto out of battery. Nobody's talking about 50 yard SD shots. Point shooting is the same whether one is(n't) using irons or dots. On the other hand, the Vortex on my Canik really makes one-handed racking easy (same when it was on my G17).

As to size - this small Sig sight was interesting - CC with a Sig P365.

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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Brownrasta wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:58 am I saw Andy hit the gong at 100 yard with his pistol.
Ditto. He hit it repeatedly. Without a miss as I recall.

I picked up his pistol, and immediately did a number of head shots from about 40ft. away.

We had a little discussion about how it was a little difficult to quickly acquire the dot but I managed to work it out in about 2 attempts and maybe 15 seconds of training.

Personally, I was very, very impressed with the whole Canik and Vortex sight package. Impressed enough that I plan to buy a similar pistol.

Re: Red Dots

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AndyH wrote:
kronkmusic wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 am They're fun at the range, but I'm vehemently opposed to them on CCW guns. First, they add unnecessary size and weight. Second, they create a very large snag point for clothing, seatbelts, car doors, etc. Third, it adds a rather powerful point of leverage for anyone attempting to disarm you, and at the very least would help someone push your gun out of battery until they could overpower you. On top of all of that, ask anyone who's ever been in a situation to use a handgun defensively and I'd bet you very few of them even bothered to try to acquire any kind of sight picture. In a situation where your life is truly in danger, you're working on pure adrenaline and you're just thrusting that gun forward and pulling the trigger as quickly as possible. As far as longer range targets, have fun trying to explain to prosecutors, a judge and a jury why you had to shoot a guy that was 50yds away from you and convince them that you were able to positively identify that person as a clear and imminent threat to your life. Oh, and then convince them that you weren't recklessly endangering anyone else in the process. Again, plenty of fun at the range. But hey, that's just my 2¢ and it's worth precisely that.
Lots of strawmen there, mate. Don't need to get near the back of the slide to push a semi-auto out of battery. Nobody's talking about 50 yard SD shots. Point shooting is the same whether one is(n't) using irons or dots. On the other hand, the Vortex on my Canik really makes one-handed racking easy (same when it was on my G17).

As to size - this small Sig sight was interesting - CC with a Sig P365.

Hey, to each their own, I'm just stating why I would never carry one.

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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I've had one on my Ruger Mark 3 for a couple years and I really like it. I just installed another one on my 1911 and I tested it today indoors at 18 yards and so far I like it and I can't wait to try it at 25 yards. These days I can barely see my sights let alone the Target behind it. I can see the Red Dot very well and I also have a clear view of the target behind. And I can shoot so much better. Obviously not for those who want to carry.

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Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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AndyH wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 pm
shinzen - While I get that he attempted adult humor (which did seem out of the ordinary for him), I don't see misogyny. Huh.
"Remembered how bad she was, Not that she was hot, bad in that she shot like shit. Granted, she was hot, but she was cuckoo"

Dunno man. That kind of casual misogyny doesn't sit well with me, never has.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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shinzen wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:03 am
AndyH wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 pm
shinzen - While I get that he attempted adult humor (which did seem out of the ordinary for him), I don't see misogyny. Huh.
"Remembered how bad she was, Not that she was hot, bad in that she shot like shit. Granted, she was hot, but she was cuckoo"

Dunno man. That kind of casual misogyny doesn't sit well with me, never has.
I agree with you that it's time for misogyny to die and stay dead. I guess if you want to turn a def off-color comment about a possibly real person into a comment about all women, that's up to you. Some people are cuckoo. Some shoot poorly. Saying that I know a person that's one or the other or both isn't the same as slamming their entire gender. I hope not, anyway, 'cause a couple of years ago when I first picked-up a pistol, I downright sucked! Over the holidays, during a conversation about the Texas church shooting and the concealed carrier that stopped the threat, a close friend vehemently objected to the use of the term 'bad guy' for the killer. She figured that people aren't bad, but some do bad things, and that labeling a swath of people currently making bad choices doesn't help them change course. I could see her point at a higher level, but think it's really difficult to talk about a specific situation or a specific person if one isn't able to shine a narrow beam in that direction. I guess if Noir had made a statement directed at at least two females, I'd agree with you that it's misogyny. I still think it's legit to label participants in an event as 'bad' and 'good' as well, especially when talking about a specific situation. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope Noir's videos skip attempts at humor in future, though - he's a better shooter than comedian.

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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I don't have a dot on my carry gun. In another thread, someone commented about a sight that has instant on capability. That might be cool. I know I can easily conceal a G19 with something the size of the Venom duct-taped on, but if the battery is dead if I ever need to draw, I'm back to irons anyway. I figure the irons will always work. For targets, though, or hunting, or a back-up to a rifle in the field, these mid-50s nearsighted eyes with enough astigmatism to turn things smaller than a quarter into snowflakes think the inventor of reflex sights should get a Nobel prize in their choice of categories. :lol:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

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Talking about how she was a bad shot and then explaining that it was because she was cross eye dominant is fine. Tossing in the "cuckoo" is where I take umbrage. It didn't add anything to the story other than trying to make it into a funny story. There's a really long history in this country of dismissing a woman by calling her crazy- I don't think Colin is sexist, but we should really stop accepting that kind of casual dismissal.
"The notion that women who are not compliant are insane is one that’s been used to silence women for generations."
If you wake up in the morning and believe you’re Queen Victoria, we’ll talk about whether or not you’re crazy.
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/p ... ent-crazy/
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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