"I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

Review and discussions of optic related equipment.

Moderators: admin, Inquisitor, ForumModerator, WebsiteContent

Message
Author
User avatar
AndyH
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5113
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

"I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#1 Post by AndyH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:18 pm

California Warning: Training depicted could expose you to chemicals that cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. Could also cause coffee or other drinks to exit the nose.

“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

User avatar
SailDesign
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 4321
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:38 am
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#2 Post by SailDesign » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:55 pm

I love them. Each to their own. :)
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.

ImageImageImage

User avatar
mrcee12
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#3 Post by mrcee12 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:08 pm

I hate the way they look. I am with you.

User avatar
YankeeTarheel
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 9412
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:01 pm
Location: The Jughandle State
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#4 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:36 pm

The Sig P320 RX is set up so you can ignore the red dot and use the elevated iron sights. Or use them together. I only hate when gun lube gets on the glass and you have hell of a time getting it off so it doesn't streak, smear, and create an unwanted "Guccione Effect".
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." -- Dom Hélder Câmara

User avatar
Elmo
Moderator
Posts: 5620
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:24 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#5 Post by Elmo » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:45 pm

I was an old school iron sights shooter for years, but starting shooting a red dot on a PCC and liked it. Now I've got one on my competition pistol (CZ SP01) and am getting used to it.

Finding the dot is a real issue at first -- the pistol indexes differently. But is should be cured with a few hours of dry fire practice. Once past that hump, the advantages should prevail.
Image
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

User avatar
tonguengroover
Been around awhile
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:46 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#6 Post by tonguengroover » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:31 pm

Just say NO!
I'm not going to get into the ring with Tolstoy. Ernest Hemingway

User avatar
spara
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:42 pm
Location: San Antonio
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#7 Post by spara » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:43 pm

Well, that was 11 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

User avatar
AndyH
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5113
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#8 Post by AndyH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:47 pm

SailDesign wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:55 pm
I love them. Each to their own. :)
I'm with you on both counts - love them! It surprised me that I could sight a dot at 7 yards then use it to hit steel at 100 - point, shoot, ding.

Sorry the post wasn't more clear - I'm def not arguing against them. I thought the vid was a humorous way to show a move from "iron sites forever" to "dotz-r-gud".
Last edited by AndyH on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

User avatar
featureless
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 4851
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 6:11 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#9 Post by featureless » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:48 pm

Elmo wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:45 pm
I was an old school iron sights shooter for years, but starting shooting a red dot on a PCC and liked it. Now I've got one on my competition pistol (CZ SP01) and am getting used to it.

Finding the dot is a real issue at first -- the pistol indexes differently. But is should be cured with a few hours of dry fire practice. Once past that hump, the advantages should prevail.
Which one is on your sp01 and who did the milling?

User avatar
shinzen
Site Admin
Posts: 19085
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#10 Post by shinzen » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:10 pm

I'm an absolute convert. Once you've gotten over the hump, as Elmo mentioned, it really is better. That said, I hated that video. Why casual misogyny needed to be in it I'll never understand.
Image

bajajoaquin
Been around awhile
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:46 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#11 Post by bajajoaquin » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 pm

I’d never seen one of his videos before. I don’t need to seek out any others.

User avatar
AndyH
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5113
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#12 Post by AndyH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 pm

Your choice, baja. I do recommend a sample size larger than one, though. He's done a couple of recent vids on various types of training. Most of his work, though, is topical pro-2A. He's an attorney from Dallas/Ft Worth and does a lot to promote firearm ownership for city folk in general and minorities in particular.

shinzen - While I get that he attempted adult humor (which did seem out of the ordinary for him), I don't see misogyny. Huh.

The training course looks useful and like it was a lot of fun!
“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

User avatar
tonguengroover
Been around awhile
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:46 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#13 Post by tonguengroover » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:37 pm

I guess if it's a range gun. But for a carry gun, to bulky.
I'm not going to get into the ring with Tolstoy. Ernest Hemingway

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5161
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#14 Post by Marlene » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:56 pm

I like them, but I don't have one currently. I feel like they aren't my favorite for everything? I had an ultradot on a revolver and chasing beer cans at 25 yards was pretty cool. It was too heavy for me to get used to for precision shooting.
Image

User avatar
kronkmusic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:34 pm
Location: South Florida
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#15 Post by kronkmusic » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 am

They're fun at the range, but I'm vehemently opposed to them on CCW guns. First, they add unnecessary size and weight. Second, they create a very large snag point for clothing, seatbelts, car doors, etc. Third, it adds a rather powerful point of leverage for anyone attempting to disarm you, and at the very least would help someone push your gun out of battery until they could overpower you. On top of all of that, ask anyone who's ever been in a situation to use a handgun defensively and I'd bet you very few of them even bothered to try to acquire any kind of sight picture. In a situation where your life is truly in danger, you're working on pure adrenaline and you're just thrusting that gun forward and pulling the trigger as quickly as possible. As far as longer range targets, have fun trying to explain to prosecutors, a judge and a jury why you had to shoot a guy that was 50yds away from you and convince them that you were able to positively identify that person as a clear and imminent threat to your life. Oh, and then convince them that you weren't recklessly endangering anyone else in the process. Again, plenty of fun at the range. But hey, that's just my 2¢ and it's worth precisely that.

User avatar
K9s
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8430
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:18 pm
Location: LGC Member: Georgia
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#16 Post by K9s » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:39 am

They seem pretty cool, but I would probably shoot irons less. I hardly ever shoot AKs with irons anymore because if optics.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

User avatar
Brownrasta
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:07 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#17 Post by Brownrasta » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:58 am

I saw Andy hit the gong at 100 yard with his pistol.
:drunklep: Everything is better with beer and comrades. :drunklep:

User avatar
AndyH
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5113
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Red Dots

#18 Post by AndyH » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:46 am

kronkmusic wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 am
They're fun at the range, but I'm vehemently opposed to them on CCW guns. First, they add unnecessary size and weight. Second, they create a very large snag point for clothing, seatbelts, car doors, etc. Third, it adds a rather powerful point of leverage for anyone attempting to disarm you, and at the very least would help someone push your gun out of battery until they could overpower you. On top of all of that, ask anyone who's ever been in a situation to use a handgun defensively and I'd bet you very few of them even bothered to try to acquire any kind of sight picture. In a situation where your life is truly in danger, you're working on pure adrenaline and you're just thrusting that gun forward and pulling the trigger as quickly as possible. As far as longer range targets, have fun trying to explain to prosecutors, a judge and a jury why you had to shoot a guy that was 50yds away from you and convince them that you were able to positively identify that person as a clear and imminent threat to your life. Oh, and then convince them that you weren't recklessly endangering anyone else in the process. Again, plenty of fun at the range. But hey, that's just my 2¢ and it's worth precisely that.
Lots of strawmen there, mate. Don't need to get near the back of the slide to push a semi-auto out of battery. Nobody's talking about 50 yard SD shots. Point shooting is the same whether one is(n't) using irons or dots. On the other hand, the Vortex on my Canik really makes one-handed racking easy (same when it was on my G17).

As to size - this small Sig sight was interesting - CC with a Sig P365.

“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

User avatar
JohnNewell
Been around awhile
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:15 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#19 Post by JohnNewell » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:00 pm

Brownrasta wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:58 am
I saw Andy hit the gong at 100 yard with his pistol.
Ditto. He hit it repeatedly. Without a miss as I recall.

I picked up his pistol, and immediately did a number of head shots from about 40ft. away.

We had a little discussion about how it was a little difficult to quickly acquire the dot but I managed to work it out in about 2 attempts and maybe 15 seconds of training.

Personally, I was very, very impressed with the whole Canik and Vortex sight package. Impressed enough that I plan to buy a similar pistol.

User avatar
kronkmusic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:34 pm
Location: South Florida
Contact:

Re: Red Dots

#20 Post by kronkmusic » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:30 pm

AndyH wrote:
kronkmusic wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 am
They're fun at the range, but I'm vehemently opposed to them on CCW guns. First, they add unnecessary size and weight. Second, they create a very large snag point for clothing, seatbelts, car doors, etc. Third, it adds a rather powerful point of leverage for anyone attempting to disarm you, and at the very least would help someone push your gun out of battery until they could overpower you. On top of all of that, ask anyone who's ever been in a situation to use a handgun defensively and I'd bet you very few of them even bothered to try to acquire any kind of sight picture. In a situation where your life is truly in danger, you're working on pure adrenaline and you're just thrusting that gun forward and pulling the trigger as quickly as possible. As far as longer range targets, have fun trying to explain to prosecutors, a judge and a jury why you had to shoot a guy that was 50yds away from you and convince them that you were able to positively identify that person as a clear and imminent threat to your life. Oh, and then convince them that you weren't recklessly endangering anyone else in the process. Again, plenty of fun at the range. But hey, that's just my 2¢ and it's worth precisely that.
Lots of strawmen there, mate. Don't need to get near the back of the slide to push a semi-auto out of battery. Nobody's talking about 50 yard SD shots. Point shooting is the same whether one is(n't) using irons or dots. On the other hand, the Vortex on my Canik really makes one-handed racking easy (same when it was on my G17).

As to size - this small Sig sight was interesting - CC with a Sig P365.

Hey, to each their own, I'm just stating why I would never carry one.

User avatar
Pomme
Been around awhile
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:05 pm
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#21 Post by Pomme » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:13 pm

I've had one on my Ruger Mark 3 for a couple years and I really like it. I just installed another one on my 1911 and I tested it today indoors at 18 yards and so far I like it and I can't wait to try it at 25 yards. These days I can barely see my sights let alone the Target behind it. I can see the Red Dot very well and I also have a clear view of the target behind. And I can shoot so much better. Obviously not for those who want to carry.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



User avatar
shinzen
Site Admin
Posts: 19085
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#22 Post by shinzen » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:03 am

AndyH wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 pm

shinzen - While I get that he attempted adult humor (which did seem out of the ordinary for him), I don't see misogyny. Huh.
"Remembered how bad she was, Not that she was hot, bad in that she shot like shit. Granted, she was hot, but she was cuckoo"

Dunno man. That kind of casual misogyny doesn't sit well with me, never has.
Image

User avatar
AndyH
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5113
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#23 Post by AndyH » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:16 am

shinzen wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:03 am
AndyH wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 pm

shinzen - While I get that he attempted adult humor (which did seem out of the ordinary for him), I don't see misogyny. Huh.
"Remembered how bad she was, Not that she was hot, bad in that she shot like shit. Granted, she was hot, but she was cuckoo"

Dunno man. That kind of casual misogyny doesn't sit well with me, never has.
I agree with you that it's time for misogyny to die and stay dead. I guess if you want to turn a def off-color comment about a possibly real person into a comment about all women, that's up to you. Some people are cuckoo. Some shoot poorly. Saying that I know a person that's one or the other or both isn't the same as slamming their entire gender. I hope not, anyway, 'cause a couple of years ago when I first picked-up a pistol, I downright sucked! Over the holidays, during a conversation about the Texas church shooting and the concealed carrier that stopped the threat, a close friend vehemently objected to the use of the term 'bad guy' for the killer. She figured that people aren't bad, but some do bad things, and that labeling a swath of people currently making bad choices doesn't help them change course. I could see her point at a higher level, but think it's really difficult to talk about a specific situation or a specific person if one isn't able to shine a narrow beam in that direction. I guess if Noir had made a statement directed at at least two females, I'd agree with you that it's misogyny. I still think it's legit to label participants in an event as 'bad' and 'good' as well, especially when talking about a specific situation. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope Noir's videos skip attempts at humor in future, though - he's a better shooter than comedian.
“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

User avatar
AndyH
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5113
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:05 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#24 Post by AndyH » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:25 am

I don't have a dot on my carry gun. In another thread, someone commented about a sight that has instant on capability. That might be cool. I know I can easily conceal a G19 with something the size of the Venom duct-taped on, but if the battery is dead if I ever need to draw, I'm back to irons anyway. I figure the irons will always work. For targets, though, or hunting, or a back-up to a rifle in the field, these mid-50s nearsighted eyes with enough astigmatism to turn things smaller than a quarter into snowflakes think the inventor of reflex sights should get a Nobel prize in their choice of categories. :lol:
“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

User avatar
shinzen
Site Admin
Posts: 19085
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: "I Hate Red Dot Sights On Handguns - Change My Mind"

#25 Post by shinzen » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:10 am

Talking about how she was a bad shot and then explaining that it was because she was cross eye dominant is fine. Tossing in the "cuckoo" is where I take umbrage. It didn't add anything to the story other than trying to make it into a funny story. There's a really long history in this country of dismissing a woman by calling her crazy- I don't think Colin is sexist, but we should really stop accepting that kind of casual dismissal.
"The notion that women who are not compliant are insane is one that’s been used to silence women for generations."
If you wake up in the morning and believe you’re Queen Victoria, we’ll talk about whether or not you’re crazy.
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/p ... ent-crazy/
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest