What made y'all support the 2nd

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Back in high school I was all for gun control, however after I moved to Arkansas home of the KKK and started my carrier as a political science major my opinions changed. I've seen nazi rallies, Klan members try and recruit one of my friends, assholes giving me the stink eye for having black friends. Plus going to university in a rural town all of my redneck friends were big time gun owners.

I should also add I grew up in a liberal family and my grandfather, uncles, and cousins were big-time hunters so I was no stranger to firearms, though my family are all kind of Fuddy

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

5
Loaded question. A whole bunch of us would have different opinions about what "supporting the 2nd" means. Different emphasis on different parts. Some of us think "well regulated" is as important as "shall not be infringed." Some of us emphasize "security of a free state" more than hunting, sport, or self defense. Can't really answer it unless we know where you're coming from.

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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My dad and his brothers were life long gun owners as were their parents who immigrated from Belgium after WWI. I was taught to shoot and respect firearms from birth.

America is America because it is one of the few Republics, may be the only Republic, that defines firearm possession as a fundamental Right of a Free Human.

So.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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It really doesn't matter whether I "support" the second amendment or not; It is part of the Constitution and the law of the land. I think what you may really mean is "do you accept my interpretation of the 2nd." I have seen hundreds of gun forum "Constitutional Scholars" who's day jobs are driving trucks, who are sure that their interpretation of the law is the word handed down from God. It is a very un-American idea.

When I read the amendment, it is hard for me to totally ignore the first phrase, which puts me somewhat outside the standard right-wing interpretation. However, the founders devised a system, that has worked for over 200 years, to pass final judgement on the true meaning of the various laws. I respect that.

I own quite a few firearms, and I just came back from the range, shooting with my son. I certainly enjoy my firearm hobby. However, I understand the the concept of "Natural Freedom" and "Civil Freedom." In a nutshell Natural Freedom says that if I lived on an island, with no other human beings present, then I would have the Natural freedom to do anything I wished, any time I wished. I could drive my car at 100 miles per hour, I could drive drunk, If I wanted to, I could burn down my house, I could hunt whatever and whenever I wished, etc.

With Civil Freedom, I am required to adjust my behavior because I affect others with my actions. Without some personal sacrifice, we could not live with other people, and society (or the lack thereof) would be in a total state of chaos. To mitigate disagreements we have established a system of laws, and the American system is better than most others.

Bottom line is, "Yes, I support the 2nd Amendment as defined by our courts, in the same way that I support the rest of the Bill of Rights and the balance of the Constitution.

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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Once I cut through all of my bullshit about what I do or dont approve of on either side of the political aisle. I'm really maybe a handful of steps above an anarchist. I want three things from the guberment. Protect the national borders, maintain order, deliver the mail. After that, I've exactly zero faith or trust in the government, politicians, & bureaucrats. They're all self serving.
So I'm probably more partial towards the prevention of a tyrannical government aspect of an armed populace.
Screw communism

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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damnitman wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:41 am It really doesn't matter whether I "support" the second amendment or not; It is part of the Constitution and the law of the land. I think what you may really mean is "do you accept my interpretation of the 2nd." I have seen hundreds of gun forum "Constitutional Scholars" who's day jobs are driving trucks, who are sure that their interpretation of the law is the word handed down from God. It is a very un-American idea.

When I read the amendment, it is hard for me to totally ignore the first phrase, which puts me somewhat outside the standard right-wing interpretation. However, the founders devised a system, that has worked for over 200 years, to pass final judgement on the true meaning of the various laws. I respect that.

I own quite a few firearms, and I just came back from the range, shooting with my son. I certainly enjoy my firearm hobby. However, I understand the the concept of "Natural Freedom" and "Civil Freedom." In a nutshell Natural Freedom says that if I lived on an island, with no other human beings present, then I would have the Natural freedom to do anything I wished, any time I wished. I could drive my car at 100 miles per hour, I could drive drunk, If I wanted to, I could burn down my house, I could hunt whatever and whenever I wished, etc.

With Civil Freedom, I am required to adjust my behavior because I affect others with my actions. Without some personal sacrifice, we could not live with other people, and society (or the lack thereof) would be in a total state of chaos. To mitigate disagreements we have established a system of laws, and the American system is better than most others.

Bottom line is, "Yes, I support the 2nd Amendment as defined by our courts, in the same way that I support the rest of the Bill of Rights and the balance of the Constitution.
I have said and still say that you can't just throw out an "inconvenient phrase" from the Constitution. Currently the interpretation of "the prefatory clause" is that it's less important because of Heller. I'm not sure that Scalia was in the ballpark on that.

It's not simply the RKBA. The authors of the BoR weighed every single word very carefully. I cannot think of anything else in the Constitution that has been discarded without a Constitutional amendment removing and revising it--Specifically 12A, 16A, 17A, 20A, 21A (repealing 18A), 22A, and 26A. Yet the prefatory clause of 2A is flatly discarded as if it didn't mean anything, as people debate what "Well-Regulated Militia" means.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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Grew up with a gun in the house, learned to shoot young. Was better at archery, latched onto that instead. Turns out that shooting is the road to shooting. I don't really care how I put holes in paper. But damn if archery isn't cheaper and quieter. I love the precision of .22LR, and the zen of single action revolver - with the kick of a 'real' caliber - well, either you know it or you don't. Don't misinterpret - I think .22LR is pretty fucking real, but I've wanted a bear gun since I realized firsthand why they exist. I'm no Bella Twin.

I come from the weird dichotomy of thinking "shall not be infringed" is pretty fucking clear, but "well-regulated" is good policy. I wouldn't count NJ or CA as "well-regulated" but Ohio does fine.

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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Somewhat same as the OP. I come from a line of hippies turned yuppies so I grew up in an environment that wasn't hostile to firearms but not very welcoming to them either. I'm in western MD so I lived next door to some rural folks for the majority of my life (neighbors to the left, farm to my right and another one behind me etc). It took me a long time to own my own but I'd shot here and there over the years. Eventually I realized I lived in an area where you sometimes wake up to klan literature on everyone's front door in the morning.
I always supported it more or less but that drove the point home in a more personal way I suppose. I'm still more of a plinker myself but I got motivated to own rather than rent once or twice a year.

My politics are very left but I debated frequently with my lefty buddies about firearms and it has been really interesting to see almost all of them turn 180 on the issue the last few years. It's also a whole heck of a lot of fun to actually have people to go to the range with now haha. We have a friend who works at a range here and until the last year or so that was the only left leaning gun guy I knew in real life.

My thought on the actual amendment itself is that our militias are not all that well regulated but the cat is a bit out of the bag at this point. I see it as important for lefties to own responsibly, actually understand firearms, and understand how the laws work to see why certain steps are more effective than others in curbing gun violence.

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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started for home protection in the city against home invasions (we suddenly started having a rash of them after nothing for 15 years). Realized I had nothing to defend my family with, if it ever happened. Ended up with a couple of Glocks, then went all out on a hunting rifle, and finally added an AR. I am actually considering swapping the AR with one of those newer AR style 9mms. I know, not for everyone. I may add a shotgun down the road, but not sure it's needed. Anyway, bottom line is I believe that everyone has a right to defend themselves (not just with kitchen knives and cell phones). Been a life long Dem. Most family and friends are Dems, and against guns. Doesn't help that I'm in CA for the moment(as far as the gun issue goes). Next year I'll be in OR in the sticks, so the gun issue is a little more acceptable.

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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i support it because i believe it's there as a formal acknowledgement that we the people have an inherent right to self defense, in particular from our own government. the still-fresh memory of concord and lexington, where the founders' "legitimate" government tried to disarm them, was ample evidence of the need for a clear statement. it's only secondarily about personal defense, much less hunting.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: What made y'all support the 2nd

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What made me support the 2nd?

The short answer: November 9, 2016 waking up and finding that the nightmare of the night before was reality.

The long answer? I have always seen the BoR as a unified whole, not an a la carte menu or a the menu at a Chinese restaurant: Pick 1 item from column A, 2 from column B. I figured the Founding Fathers agonized over EVERY SINGLE WORD in all 10 amendments and that they had an obvious underlying principle: These are the some of the things that the government MUST leave you alone about and ONLY in extreme circumstances can they interfere in your life...ie, the REAL source of the right to privacy--the right to be left alone.

Imagine, as a thought experiment, what would each of the first 10 Amendments mean and signify if you did NOT have the inherent right to privacy, the right to be left alone. They simply do not make sense that way.

Then Trump happened.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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