California Wildfires

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highdesert
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Re: California Wildfires

Post by highdesert »

Smoke has suffused the sky for days, replacing a bright yellow sun with a hazy red orb and raining down flakes of ash on much of the West Coast, where four cities on Sunday were among the 10 most polluted places in the world.

Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle ranked eighth, sixth and third, respectively, but the dubious honor of worst air of any big city on the globe went to Portland, Ore., where smoke was blowing in from more than 30 blazes burning across the state.
“We have a blowtorch over our states in the West, which is climate change,” said Inslee, who expressed frustration with Trump, who he said wasn’t focusing enough on how a warming climate lays the groundwork for such catastrophic fires. Trump has called climate change a hoax, although at other times he has acknowledged it.

On Monday, Trump — who drew criticism last week for not having addressed the deadly fires charring millions of acres — is expected to visit with emergency officials in Sacramento County and receive a briefing on the fires, including the massive North Complex fire in Northern California.

The blaze, which began with a bolt of lightning in mid-August, has burned ferociously since then, killing at least 14 people, causing thousands to evacuate during a deadly pandemic and chewing through more than 261,000 acres in Butte, Plumas and Yuba counties.

As of Sunday night, it was 26% contained.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... usty-winds

Talking about climate change knowing full well that Trump would deny it, just set up the conflict that he wanted. It played to Trumps base. Democratic politicians should have focused on lack of resources and what is Trump doing to send in more resources, since these fires are on federal lands. Trump 1 - Democrats 0.
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Re: California Wildfires

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More than half of California’s registered voters have given “serious” or “some” recent consideration to moving out of the state, according to a new poll from UC Berkeley’s Institute of Governmental Studies. Twenty-four percent of the 4,527 registered voters surveyed in the Berkeley IGS Poll said they had given “serious” thought to leaving, while another 28% said they have given “some” thought.

Asked why they are considering leaving, 71% of those polled pointed to the high cost of housing. Fifty-eight percent said high taxes may send them packing and 46% said they were concerned about the state’s political culture. “Concerns about the high cost of housing span virtually every demographic, regional and political subgroup of the state’s registered voters,” said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Berkeley IGS Poll, adding that younger voters were more likely to worry about the high cost of housing than voters over 65.

The poll, the third Berkeley IGS Poll to be released this week, was conducted online in English and Spanish from Sept. 13 to 18. It had a margin of error of 2 percentage points.
https://news.berkeley.edu/story_jump/ne ... -of-state/

Continuing rise in housing costs and the inevitable rise in insurance rates due to the fires, will make CA unappealing and help reduce the population.
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Re: California Wildfires

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Well, I'd love to join those moving out of CA, but won't leave my family. Both of our parents will be of the age they'll need help in the next 5-10 years, so not interested in leaving that to my siblings or doing the long-distance care thing.

We'll very likely be moving early summer of next year (housing market depending), but only about an hour east. Kid will be done with high school, so time to downsize the house and find some land.

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Re: California Wildfires

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My wife is from CA and we re-located there for a couple of years after meeting and marrying elsewhere. We both decided it just wasn't worth it. We had to work so much to just afford housing and then there was the pollution and traffic to deal with. No thank you. Cost of living in the east is just so much better. Much easier to live near where you work. And not on fire. Yet...
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Re: California Wildfires

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The U.S. wildfires have even become an unwelcome expatriate in Europe — with West Coast-originating smoke being reported as far away as the Netherlands and Hamburg, Germany.

The massive fires are also throwing off significant amounts of pollutants. Satellite readings taken over the last week show high-altitude concentrations of carbon monoxide that are more than 10 times above normal, according to NASA.

“The intense heat from the wildfires lofted the carbon monoxide high into the atmosphere ... the jet stream then blew the carbon monoxide plume eastward across the U.S. and over the Atlantic Ocean,” officials wrote in a statement.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ast-europe
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Re: California Wildfires

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highdesert wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:31 pm
The U.S. wildfires have even become an unwelcome expatriate in Europe — with West Coast-originating smoke being reported as far away as the Netherlands and Hamburg, Germany.
The Dutch news actually featured the wildfires in the weather (after having reported on them of course). It seems the high grey clouds there last week were a result of the West Coast fires.

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Re: California Wildfires

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Nuclear winter affects the entire globe due to high atmospheric wind currents. I never considered that West Coast wildfires could do the same.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Re: California Wildfires

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Ironic, because the entire concept of nuclear winter is predicated on stratospheric soot from urban conflagration. They've been using some of the smoke from these fires for real-life validation of the models the past few years.
https://eos.org/articles/what-wildfire- ... ear-winter

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Re: California Wildfires

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We are have red sunsets because of the smoke from the fires.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

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Re: California Wildfires

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Trump’s Forest Management Talk Is a Ruse, Former White House Officials Say

President Donald Trump has made emergency declarations related to the wildfires seen in California, Oregon and Washington, but he hasn’t dedicated much time to the underlying issue of climate change, which is largely responsible for the prominence of widespread fires in the first place.

Instead, Trump has speculated, without evidence of any kind, that it’s forest management practices by the states where fires are located that’s to blame — in spite of the fact that much of the affected areas are federally managed.

But according to those with knowledge of the president’s thinking, Trump isn’t truly concerned about forest management at all, and his reluctance to pay much mind to those affected by wildfires may be driven by his politics.

Trump this week had a back-and-forth with California National Resources Secretary Wade Crowfoot, who suggested the president ought to confront climate change as a reason why wildfires have been worse in recent years, compared to years past.

“If we ignore that science, and sort of put our head in the sand, and think it’s all about vegetation management, we’re not going to succeed together protecting Californians,” Crowfoot said to Trump.

The president disagreed, suggesting that climate will “start getting cooler” soon.

“I wish science agreed with you,” Crowfoot said.

“I don’t think science knows,” Trump responded.

During an interview with “Fox & Friends” hosts on Fox News on Tuesday, Trump doubled down on his climate change denial, putting blame once again on the Golden State for the wildfires that were happening there.

“You have forests all over the world. You don’t have fires like you do in California,” Trump said.

In truth, many areas across the globe are seeing more problems with wildfires than they have in the past, including in South America, Australia and central Asia in particular. And in spite of the president’s assertions, Europe, too, saw a much higher rate of wildfires last year than it had seen on average during the 10-year span that preceded 2019.

Trump has argued in the past in favor of better forest management practices. In 2018, for example, he used the idea to criticize California when it was similarly battling wildfires at the time. But former White House officials have spoken out against Trump’s statements, from then and now, telling The Independent that his refusal to acknowledge climate change, as well as his criticisms about forest management, were more likely centered on a political vendetta against states he sees as being in opposition to his presidency.

“He doesn’t care one bit about managing forests — or much of anything for that matter — unless he can spin it as a failure of governance under the Democratic Party,” a former staffer in the White House familiar with Trump’s thinking said.

Former Department of Homeland Security Chief of Staff Miles Taylor echoed those sentiments, adding that Trump’s anger isn’t just with politicians and lawmakers, but also against voters from western states that didn’t support him in 2016. Taylor told The Independent, for example, that the president had withheld some assistance to Californians specifically because they voted against him in the 2016 election.

“He didn’t want the people in California to get the money, because he basically said he didn’t think that they deserved it,” Taylor explained, adding that Trump had said something along the lines of, “If they don’t support me, I’m not gonna support them” when it came to people in that state specifically.

Trump lashed out at both former Gov. Jerry Brown and current Gov. Gavin Newsom, both Democrats, Taylor recounted, during his time at DHS.

“It was a very clear political statement of him saying that if the past two governors aren’t supporting me, and the people of California don’t like me politically … do not provide money, don’t provide disaster relief,” the former DHS official added.
https://truthout.org/articles/trumps-f ... cials-say/

Typical Bully attitude of a petulant chid mind. You don’t do what I want, So I will show you what I can do.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
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Re: California Wildfires

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Firefighters are working to save the Mt Wilson Observatory from the Bobcat Fire. Cameras at the Observatory.
http://hpwren.ucsd.edu/cameras/wilson.html
The cameras mounted on the solar tower at the Mount Wilson Observatory in the San Gabriel Mountains can usually pick up the Los Angeles Basin in the distance. But in the past few days, they have shown little but tree tops jutting out of a brown horizon of thick smoke. “That view is usually like a clear blue sky,” said Tim Thompson, a member of the board of trustees at the Mount Wilson Institute. “It is up high enough that we get away from the smog.”

At just over 5,700 feet, with cameras planted another 100 feet higher or more, the observatory, which was founded in 1904, has had a long established perch from which to view the skies and surrounding terrain. Now, along with nearby communities, that terrain has put it squarely in the path of the Bobcat Fire, which has grown to about 41,200 acres and is 3 percent contained. Firefighters worked into Tuesday morning to try to contain the fire and to protect the observatory and the foothills communities. But the fire ranged wider despite their efforts.

There were more than 40 firefighters on the observatory grounds, Mr. Thompson said, adding that they lit a backfire below Mount Wilson, trying to deprive the Bobcat Fire of flammable material. There was no scramble to move instruments — they are far too heavy. Scientific materials are kept in Pasadena, Mr. Thompson said, but damage to equipment is a concern.

The steep topography of the area has hampered the efforts of about 1,000 firefighters struggling to contain the Bobcat Fire, said Capt. David Dantic, a public information officer for the unified organizations fighting the blaze. At one point, the fire jumped over a ridge, burning through the dry fuel of the terrain and kept going, nestled into a chimney-like feature which assisted its spread. The fire got close enough to Arcadia and Sierra Madre that the cities issued evacuation orders over the weekend, sending about 305 households into flight, he said.

Other communities are under evacuation warnings. The fire has churned to about a half mile to a mile away from the observatory. “I will say that all of Southern California, you can see plenty of smoke,” Captain Dantic said. “It is a fight we have to make sure we can contain.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/o ... ornia.html

Temperatures are still high, mine was 100 degrees yesterday and 100 degrees is forecasted today. Then a slight cooling trend of a few degrees.

California's governor did point out to Trump that only 3% of the lands burning in CA are state owned, 57% are federal lands.
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Re: California Wildfires

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highdesert wrote:Temperatures are still high, mine was 100 degrees yesterday and 100 degrees is forecasted today. Then a slight cooling trend of a few degrees.

California's governor did point out to Trump that only 3% of the lands burning in CA are state owned, 57% are federal lands.
It doesn’t matter. The fires are in CA, so he will continue to blame CA for not spending even more money the state doesn’t have maintaining land it doesn’t actually own. His loyal followers will declare Newsom’s very valid point as “fake news,” rinse, repeat.

It’s been cooler here lately, only getting into the mid-high 80’s the last week or so. A fair amount of employees have been having health issues related to the smoke. It’s been less smoky as well, though you can still see it in the air. I was catching up with a friend up in Salem, OR (where I lived for a couple years a while back) and they definitely have it much worse. The news I watch has done a poor job of discussing fires outside of CA.

I missed all the gin talk! I don’t drink any more, but when I did I loved a good Tom Collins. Hayman’s Old Tom was my go-to, but Beefeater would always work in a pinch.

Hang in there, Bisbee. It boggles my mind that people think it’s okay to crowd a residential street just to view the fire. Still amazes me how oblivious people can be.
“If your pictures aren’t good enough, you’re not close enough.” -Robert Capa

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Re: California Wildfires

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featureless wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 pm
We'll very likely be moving early summer of next year (housing market depending), but only about an hour east. Kid will be done with high school, so time to downsize the house and find some land.
I'm don't mean to single you out (HI! I'm John, and I'm a CO2 Sinner), but this at the core of the problem.
We've never had so many folks living in unincorporated areas demanding services.

Most of the major fires over the last few years were caused by high winds damaging power lines, power lines that weren't there just a few years ago.
As we continue to expand the urban/wildland interface, and the demand for services to hundreds of thousands of homes within that interface increase, the chances of catastrophic interaction also increase.
Add the overload of understory from previous land-use, the lack of prescribed burning due to funding issues, and the public's aversion to the smoke produced, you already have a recipe for disaster. AGW just ramps it to 11.

Now Drumpf is correct about one thing. It will be cooler next year. But that's due to the increased albedo...from the fires!

As a student in the mid 80's, my Physics Prof was a micrometeorologist by training. He used to listen to the NOAA short wave data stream as 'White Noise' in his office. It was like listening to a dial-up modem.
We had many discussions about AGW.
While he did not dispute the increase in CO2 causing warming, he felt that it would largely be mitigated by the increase in albedo from dust and smoke... :hmmm:

Stay safe, all.
John

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Re: California Wildfires

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Coal actually helped mitigate its own impact on that front before the Clean Air Act, because of all the sulfur.

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Re: California Wildfires

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RotaryMags wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:42 am
featureless wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 pm
We'll very likely be moving early summer of next year (housing market depending), but only about an hour east. Kid will be done with high school, so time to downsize the house and find some land.
I'm don't mean to single you out (HI! I'm John, and I'm a CO2 Sinner), but this at the core of the problem.
We've never had so many folks living in unincorporated areas demanding services.
No worries and you're not incorrect.

Flip side, if it works to plan, I'll be 100% solar with battery backup (grid tied for o-shits), 100% electric heat/air/water/cook, super insulated retrofit of an existing inefficient house and utilizing an EV for nearly 100% of my driving. Also, will have the ability to grow/raise much of our food. I can't ever accomplish those goals continuing to live in cities/towns 'casue I ain't rich. :)

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Re: California Wildfires

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:beer2: Best of luck to you. I'm actually planning a similar with the In-Laws House in WI...

I'm a firm believer in reduce, reuse, recycle...

As gramps used to say:

"Use it up, wear it out, do with less or do without"
John

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Re: California Wildfires

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featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:54 am
Flip side, if it works to plan, I'll be 100% solar with battery backup (grid tied for o-shits), 100% electric heat/air/water/cook, super insulated retrofit of an existing inefficient house and utilizing an EV for nearly 100% of my driving. Also, will have the ability to grow/raise much of our food. I can't ever accomplish those goals continuing to live in cities/towns 'casue I ain't rich.
Impressive
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Re: California Wildfires

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highdesert wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:12 pm
featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:54 am
Flip side, if it works to plan, I'll be 100% solar with battery backup (grid tied for o-shits), 100% electric heat/air/water/cook, super insulated retrofit of an existing inefficient house and utilizing an EV for nearly 100% of my driving. Also, will have the ability to grow/raise much of our food. I can't ever accomplish those goals continuing to live in cities/towns 'casue I ain't rich.
Impressive
Well, it only works by moving rural onto family land and cashing out of the housing market (not everyone has that opportunity) and an early inheritance to get out from under a mortgage (in trade for a more modest rent to the in-laws). But yes, if it works out, it will be something I've dreamed about for 20 years. But I'm sure the housing market will crash, because why wouldn't it? :crazy:

The family land thing has benefits and drawbacks. Like living adjacent to family (huge pluses and minuses). My wife's parents are in their early 70s, so in another decade or so, we'll be very glad to be there to be able to help out. Fortunately, I get on with my in-laws very well.

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Re: California Wildfires

Post by Bisbee »

City of Monrovia reported at 8:00pm tonight that the southern front of the Bobcat fire is pretty much extinguished and no longer poses a treat to homes. That is a big relief for the residents of the area. Even before the announcement we saw a rapid decrease in air pollution. Tonight is the first time in weeks we were able to open windows to enjoy some cool evening breeze.
:clap:
Never thought that relief would come from knowing the trees have all burned down in the mountains behind us...
:confused:
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Re: California Wildfires

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featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:27 pm
Well, it only works by moving rural onto family land and cashing out of the housing market (not everyone has that opportunity) and an early inheritance to get out from under a mortgage (in trade for a more modest rent to the in-laws). But yes, if it works out, it will be something I've dreamed about for 20 years.
Follow your dreams, plus it will be a learning adventure.
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Re: California Wildfires

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Bisbee wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:57 am
City of Monrovia reported at 8:00pm tonight that the southern front of the Bobcat fire is pretty much extinguished and no longer poses a treat to homes. That is a big relief for the residents of the area. Even before the announcement we saw a rapid decrease in air pollution. Tonight is the first time in weeks we were able to open windows to enjoy some cool evening breeze.
:clap:
Never thought that relief would come from knowing the trees have all burned down in the mountains behind us...
:confused:
:thumbup: That's great news Bisbee !

Didn't cool off last night in my area, 82 degrees at 5 am and back to the high 90s, hopefully cooler temperatures ahead.
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Re: California Wildfires

Post by featureless »

Great news, Bisbee!

We got to open our windows yesterday as well. Air had been ugly for way too long.

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Re: California Wildfires

Post by CDFingers »

RotaryMags wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:09 pm
I'm a firm believer in reduce, reuse, recycle...

As gramps used to say:

"Use it up, wear it out, do with less or do without"
Sounds like I know gramps. And Bisbee, that's great the fire got stopped.

We're so lucky this year to have only smoke. Sure it sucks, but it's not on fire. I feel so underwhelmed that I can only complain about being cooped up and having smoky skies.

Y'all hang in there.

CDFingers
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Don't worry 'bout the jury, they'll prolly take care of themselves."

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Re: California Wildfires

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Nice! Glad to hear it.

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Re: California Wildfires

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With the Bobcat Fire in the Angeles National Forest moving in the opposite direction, direction has shifted to the Antelope Valley also in Los Angeles County.
New evacuation warnings are in effect for parts of the southern Antelope Valley as the nearby Bobcat fire swelled to 50,539 acres, the U.S. Forest Service said Thursday.

The new warning applies to residents in the unincorporated community of Juniper Hills, including residents south of Fort Tejon Road, east of 96th Street and east and south of Valyermo Road, west of Bobs Gap Road.

“Due to the current fire danger, all residents should be prepared to evacuate the above listed areas for their safety, and the safety of their loved ones,” the Forest Service said.

“If you have not already done so, gather your family, pets, important papers, medications and any emergency supplies, and be prepared to evacuate the area if ordered. If your family must split up, determine a designated meeting place to account for every member.”
The Bobcat fire, which began Sept. 6, remains at 3% containment and has grown steadily in numerous directions. Firefighting efforts are focused on securing the south end of the blaze, near threatened foothill communities, as well as near Camp Trask, where the fire is “holding the line,” officials said. “With decreased smoke conditions, increased temperatures, and lower relative humidity, the fire saw growth along the perimeter,” the Forest Service said.

The area around Mt. Wilson and the southwestern edge of the fire also remain active, “where crews continue to protect the Mt. Wilson Observatory infrastructure.” Mt. Wilson is not only an important piece of history, it is also home to several broadcast towers.

“There’s major infrastructure for radio, television and cell towers up there,” L.A. County Fire Capt. David Dantic said earlier this week, “so there might be possible disruptions.”
Estimates for containment of the Bobcat fire remain at Oct. 30.
[url]https://www.latimes.com%2Fcalifornia%2Fstory%2F2020-09-17%2Fevacuation-warnings-for-antelope-valley-as-bobcat-fire-expands&usg=AOvVaw1hZFiyIML4rLSyoZuGtU3w[/url]
Last edited by highdesert on Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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