Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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K9s wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:57 pm
senorgrand wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:33 pm "less corrupt" is still corrupt...who said we had to choose between biden and trump?
Agreed. If the true choice is Trump v Biden, anyone can write in or vote for a 3rd Party. The more important votes are local and state, anyway.

Personally, I know that no one is perfect. I don't see Biden as corrupt because his kid got a job somewhere. I don't like his connections to banks. However, if it meant kicking Trump/Pence/Kushner/DeVos/Pompeo/Mulvaney/Cuccinelli/S Miller/and the corrupt lobbyists out of the WH or allowing them to stay, I will vote for Biden. The entire administration must go and the next SCOTUS picks cannot go to the GOP. This isn't really about just Trump and Biden.
That's about where I'm at, Biden is no more entitled to the nomination than any of the other presidential candidates. If families are now fair game in elections then Trump, his wife and ex-wives and kids can be targeted beside Biden's wife and kids and the rest of the Democratic candidates and their families. Purity tests only divide parties, there is no perfect candidate. I've held my nose before in elections, I can do it again.

As I've said before, most people in the US wouldn't agree with me on politics and I'm the first to admit it the country is much farther to the right than I am, it's the reality of living in the US. Thanks to social media, commercial media, organized religions and the political parties, we are two tribes and each one has a different world view. And the winners are social media, commercial media and organized religion, they all make money and laugh at us all the way to the bank. It's easier for the political parties to make everything black and white, don't burden voters with having to think too hard.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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K9s wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:29 pm Featureless, you and I are in different situations. However, we can vote for local and state candidates we agree with and make things harder for the GOP and bank-owned Dems by voting and giving to progressives we trust.
Yes, of course. Last state election, I tried a new approach by voting for all candidates that were not backed by big money that had progressive agendas. Oddly, none of them got even 1%. :)

I can bitch more loudly about the Dem presidential nominee because they'll get CA's electoral votes no matter who it is. Local elections are the same (although I actually like most of the local representation, gun issues aside).

Bacchus, thanks for your comments on the Hunter Biden thing. He has no real bearing on my feelings about Joe. I dislike him for a plethora of reasons.

Would it be too much to ask for the opportunity to vote for Warren or Sanders? They have issues, I'm sure, but at least represent a pulling away from the downslide into the mire we continue to vote for as the lesser of two evils.

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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featureless wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:25 pm
K9s wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:29 pm Featureless, you and I are in different situations. However, we can vote for local and state candidates we agree with and make things harder for the GOP and bank-owned Dems by voting and giving to progressives we trust.
Yes, of course. Last state election, I tried a new approach by voting for all candidates that were not backed by big money that had progressive agendas. Oddly, none of them got even 1%. :)

I can bitch more loudly about the Dem presidential nominee because they'll get CA's electoral votes no matter who it is. Local elections are the same (although I actually like most of the local representation, gun issues aside).

Bacchus, thanks for your comments on the Hunter Biden thing. He has no real bearing on my feelings about Joe. I dislike him for a plethora of reasons.

Would it be too much to ask for the opportunity to vote for Warren or Sanders? They have issues, I'm sure, but at least represent a pulling away from the downslide into the mire we continue to vote for as the lesser of two evils.
I think that is a state difference, like you mentioned. Our red states in the south have been ignored by the DNC and DSCC for decades. So, we were able to get progressive, non-millionaire candidates in the general election and some of them won. We will persist and work at the local level to change the state because we have the numbers now. The DNC and DSCC are really passing us by again in 2020. They will get more progressive Dem rebels in repayment for their ignorance. All it takes is voting.

If we had fair representation and non-gerrymandered districts, I could care a lot more about Trump v Biden. I have a lot more at stake than POTUS.

Unless the choice is Trump v "terrible", I will probably vote for the Dem candidate as a message. I do not want this state to vote Trump again. He only got ‎50.44% in 2016 here.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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featureless wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:02 pm
Stiff,

I get your point. Truly. I've shared that opinion most of my adult voting life. But what if we never demand more? We'll continue to get worse and worse as our "representation." This country elected a fucking thug that brags about sexual assault as a direct result of the "we're so sick of this shit it's better to let the fucker burn" mentality. The DNC threw up a lackadaisical candidate, representing only the status quo (at best), that should have easily carried the election based on the opposition candidate. I voted for her, nose plugged. I'm not sure I can keep doing that because, long-term, it will land us with worse than the current occupant. The downward slide toward absolute corruption is well underway. Why vote for it?

And yes, the primaries are critically important. But I fully expect the DNC to fuck it again.
The world is not perfect. By picking the lesser of the two evils, or the best of the worst, I’m doing my best to make it a less sucky place to live in.

The other alternative that has been tried many times in the past is an outright violent revolution. That ain’t no picnic, and I’m quite certain that it’s worse than picking a lackluster, uninspiring, and slightly corrupt presidential candidate.

I’m not at all convinced that picking the less corrupt guy ultimately leads to an inevitable slippery slope to total corruption. The parties want to win, and if people consistently pick the less corrupt guy (instead of the totally corrupt guy who affirms their religion and racism), then they’ll get the message and consistently nominate less corrupt leaders.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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VodoundaVinci wrote:Does anyone care? Or are we all gonna vote Democrat no matter what comes out about the Bidens because they are not Trump?

VooDoo
I’m going to take a wild guess here and say that you’re not in a minority or a class of people that has been directly affected by the sharp rise in white supremacy/nationalism under Trump’s admin.

If you don’t vote against Trump, you are complicit. You are not an ally of the oppressed, marginalized, and oppressed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:07 pm My fault and I apologize. I give up.

VooDoo
I understand where you are coming from, but I think it is hard to compare what Biden *might* have done (worst case scenario) versus what we know Trump has done.

Charlottesville rally should have been the day when most minds were made up if anyone was undecided.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Pot Stirring - A

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Maccabee wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:07 am
VodoundaVinci wrote:Does anyone care? Or are we all gonna vote Democrat no matter what comes out about the Bidens because they are not Trump?

VooDoo
I’m going to take a wild guess here and say that you’re not in a minority or a class of people that has been directly affected by the sharp rise in white supremacy/nationalism under Trump’s admin.

If you don’t vote against Trump, you are complicit. You are not an ally of the oppressed, marginalized, and oppressed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For minorities Trump is an existential crisis, for others he’s just an inconvenience.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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Members of the Biden family have been capitalizing on Joe since the 70s, much has been made about the Ukraine affair but little is mentioned about his connections with eastern banks, his son Hunter

was a paid consultant of MBNA while working as a lobbyist, boy did they ever profit from Joe Biden. It was the main reason that Elizabeth Warren entered politics.

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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eelj wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:31 pm Members of the Biden family have been capitalizing on Joe since the 70s, much has been made about the Ukraine affair but little is mentioned about his connections with eastern banks, his son Hunter

was a paid consultant of MBNA while working as a lobbyist, boy did they ever profit from Joe Biden. It was the main reason that Elizabeth Warren entered politics.
Yeah, there is plenty to complain about Biden (or most long-time politicians) that is documented and true. It's rarely a clear, easy path to the office of POTUS.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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It would just mean we need to investigate the Bidens too, as well as impeaching Trump. If Trump truly believed that the Bidens has done something wrong, he would have referred them to the FBI for investigation, not tried to extort a foreign leader into investigating them.
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Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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Eris wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:29 am If Trump truly believed that the Bidens has done something wrong, he would have referred them to the FBI for investigation, not tried to extort a foreign leader into investigating them.
Yes that's the way it should have been handled and DOJ should be forced to appoint a special counsel like Mueller was appointed, because it's apparent that Barr is too political to oversee it. Right now it has so many rumors running through the media that it sounds like the conspiracy surrounding Vince Foster's death and Whitewater.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/busi ... unter.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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If we're discussing corruption, qualifications and nepotism, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner have no business being anywhere near the White House; of course neither does the current occupant, but here we are. Hunter Biden and the attendant shiny objects are an effective distraction from the lawless antics of that utterly (and sometimes literally) bankrupt occupant. He's gotta go and Barr, DeVos, Pompeo, et al with him. More likely though is the near inevitable Democratic shit show/fuck-up. Not optimistic here.

Re: Pot Stirring - A "What If" about The Bidens

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Resume wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:01 pm If we're discussing corruption, qualifications and nepotism, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner have no business being anywhere near the White House; of course neither does the current occupant, but here we are. Hunter Biden and the attendant shiny objects are an effective distraction from the lawless antics of that utterly (and sometimes literally) bankrupt occupant. He's gotta go and Barr, DeVos, Pompeo, et al with him. More likely though is the near inevitable Democratic shit show/fuck-up. Not optimistic here.
Yeah, it is either an oversight that no one in the House hearings brought up Trump's kids OR they have something planned for later next year. It is so obvious, I really think they are saving it for later. Or, it just won't matter and will seem petty.

I really don't believe anyone is really undecided. It is either an obvious hypocrisy or it's OK when your side does it.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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